Every Mormon I know emphatically states, "We are Christians just like
you!"
Mormon missionaries are more than happy to proselyte any
Christian into their Church.
Yet, if anyone from their Church decides to attend any other Christian church they are immediately reprimanded and if they persist in attending any church but the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints they will be excommunicated and labeled as
apostates.
If Mormons truly are Christians just like all the other
Christian denominations then why do they consider it the "unpardonable
sin" to attend a different Christian church?
Think about it....
Blessings,
Chip
I have wondered this too. I'm sure it's because their leaders know that perhaps their members eyes would be opened and the questions would start. I have invited missionaries to attend my church with me and of course they were a no show.
ReplyDeleteLinda
Linda, of course we are happy to have people from other denominations attend our meetings. When we become members it because we have gained a spiritual testimony that this is the true Church of Jesus Christ. Why would we not want to share what we have come to know is true?
Deletepeople have in the past bombarded me with what they claim is the 'truth' about mormonism in an attempt to persuade me I am not in the right path. I have searched for answers to their claims and have always, without exception found the information they used was wrong,didn't tell the whole truth about a subject or just flat out lies.
I don't believe Chip who does these pages is deliberately trying to fool people, but he is incorrect in his claims. Let's look at this page.
Chip claims, "if anyone from their Church decides to attend any other Christian church they are immediately reprimanded and if they persist in attending any church but the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints they will be excommunicated and labeled as
apostates."
Absolutely false. If someone decides to attend another church, that is their choice. The local leaders may talk to that person, express concern and try to find out what the problems are that caused them to seek another church but as far as I am aware (and you would have to consult the guidelines of the church) people are not threatened with excommunication or even reprimanded. It is not a dictatorship. Do you know what my proof is? My own mother. She has been a member since 1961. After my Dad died a few years ago, she had a falling out with the leaders and now attends another church. She has not been excommunicated, reprimanded or suffered any retribution for her decision. So I can directly refute and debunk what Chip has claimed on this page. She has not been labelled apostate either. So as I say, this claim of Chips is debunked.
To his next claim,
"If Mormons truly are Christians just like all the other
Christian denominations then why do they consider it the "unpardonable
sin" to attend a different Christian church?
Another false claim. Unpardonable means you cannot be forgiven. Anyone who knows about the Mormon Church knows there are only 2 unpardonable sins. Attending another Church is NOT one of them.
Chip may be sincere in his desire to guide you in finding truth, however in terms of the mormon church he needs to start using truth first because when all is said and done, isn't the truth what is important here?
Mick, maybe your experience is different than the former LDS people with which I am associated. I have lived in Utah for over 20 years. We attend a Christian Church, The Ephraim Church of the Bible, in Ephraim, Utah, which is full of former Mormons. Just to make my point, average attendance on Sunday is about 125-150 and easily 75% of the people who attend used to be LDS. Without exception, these people have been persecuted intensely for switching churches. Kenneth's wife divorced him for leaving Mormonism. Mitz's business as a hairdresser was boycotted by our LDS community and she was forced out of business. Almost every former Mormon has been shunned by family members - Janet's family will not allow her to be alone with her grandchildren and she is forbidden to openly wear a cross while the LDS family is around - she and her husband are in divorce proceedings even as I write. And, yes, several of our former LDS friends were called into official LDS court proceedings and excommunicated for leaving the LDS Church. I will encourage a few of our former Mormons to respond to this blog so you can see a few of the 1st hand testimonies of former Mormons who are being persecuted for leaving the LDS Church and becoming Christians. You can act like I am just some ignorant person who doesn't know what I am saying but that is not true, I LIVE IN THE HEART OF UTAH and have experienced Utah Mormonism in all it's "glory".
DeleteMick,
DeleteI acknowledge your sincerity but I also must correct your assessment of the treatment of former Members of the Church or those currently seeking answers for the hard questions. By now you must be aware of Elder Mattsson (see link below) who has described precisely the terrible treatment Chip has outlined and my Wife and I have experienced firsthand. As an active Bishop I was instructed by my Stake Mission President to deem those who were considering leaving the Church, left the Church or asking embarrassing questions about Church History, Policy or Doctrine, as ones who had an evil spirit about them and are to be avoided in all cases.
If you question the reality of this and are moderately certain that I, with a General Authority are simply continuing the deception that you have accused Chip of, then consider a real-world test of your Faith and of those whom you now call Brothers and Sisters.
Ask this question, for it was the beginning of my harsh education as a Mormon Bishop, and see how you are treated, for you if you do NOT know the answer, then you should and you can post a full report of both the answer and the support you receive right here on this blog:
Why did the 1835 publication of the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teach in direct and clear opposition to the practice of Polygamy from 1835 to 1876, during the very height of the actual practice of Polygamy and Polyandry? See: lds.org, Joseph Smith Papers – ref. below.
lds.org
Resources
History
Joseph Smith Papers
http://josephsmithpapers.org/
Search: “with the crime of fornication”
Document: D&C 101:4
“In asmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.”
Note: In print as Scripture from 1835 to 1876.
lds.org
Scripture
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 132
In apparent violation of the “Laws governing the plurality of wives”1, Joseph Smith took anywhere from eight2 to eleven3 wives of other men as his own, by way of a direct commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ.
As clearly recorded by Joseph Smith in D&C 132: 61-64, the Lord sets three conditions (Laws) which are required for a member of the Priesthood who desires to take other wives: She must be 1) “a virgin”, 2) “the first give her consent”, and 3) “vowed to no other man”, “belongeth unto him and to no one else. Joseph Smith “Tested” many men in the Church4 by reporting that the Lord had selected their wives, and that they were to be shared with him. Examples: (Heber C. Kimball, Hiram Kimball, Orson Pratt, John Taylor and William Law). In eleven other circumstances Joseph Smith did not simply test, he plainly took the wives of men like the Apostle Orson Hyde (wife – Marinda) when he was on his mission to Jerusalem. Then when Joseph was publicly questioned about the practice in May of 1844 he clearly lied5: “What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.”
http://www.nytimes.com/video/2013/07/20/us/100000002347278/a-mormon-doubts.html
NOTE: JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT THE COMMENT POSTED BY RUTH DOUTHITT, SEPT. 5, 2013 AT 10:10 AM WAS WRITTEN BY CHIP THOMPSON AND POSTED BY RUTH.
DeleteI will start at the point that Lee Baker proposed...ask a question in gospel doctrine class like..."Did Brigham Young teach that Adam was God the Father and the only God with whom we have to do as reported in the Journal of Discourses? And if he did teach that, how come we do not acknowledge Adam as God the Father today? Did Brigham Young teach false doctrine? And if he did what does that mean about his authority or priesthood or LDS priesthood today? Did Peter James and John come visit again to restore authority lost by a false teaching false prophet?"
ReplyDeleteIf your question is welcomed and openly discussed then the church has really changed since I was there twenty some years ago. More likely the "brethren" will close ranks around you and over a short time escort you out in any one of a hundred ways.
Because my wife was not on the same page at the same time and consorted with the Bishop etc, she was advised that I must have some deep and secret sin to be questioning the church and its history.They were suggesting to her that I must have been unfaithful to her. This was not true. I have found that the LDS use smear tactics against those who question their church.
The tragic truth is we have all sinned and are criminals in Gods Universe. The good news is really good news and that is that Christ is the Way, Truth and Life. I pray that you will receive a love of the truth...it will change your life here and your eternal destiny.
Is There Persecution or Shunning of Ex-Mormons in Utah?
ReplyDelete[The comments below were written by one of the former LDS women mentioned by Chip in his comments on Sept. 5, 2013. This woman wishes to remain annonymous for the many reasons mentioned in her letter below...]
I joined the LDS church at 16, left at 61 due to researching and realizing that I did not believe many of the teachings of Mormonism. I had found myself under a dark cloud, trying to continue living and following what I finally believed to be a false religion. I had lived my religion 100% - temple-worthy member at all times, sent 8 of our 10 children on missions (the other two, girls, were married in the temple). I let my husband know that I understood if he felt he needed to divorce me, but that I could no longer remain an active member of the LDS church (at the time I left, I had been gospel doctrine teacher for more than 2 years; I have also served in virtually every position a woman can hold in the LDS church during my 45-year tenure). My husband and I are currently in the process of a divorce. We tried for 3 years to overcome our differences in regard to religion, but he absolutely could not control his anger and disappointment over my decision. In a rage one night, he finally screamed at me that if I was not going to even consider returning to "The Church," we had no marriage and I should just pursue a divorce. He has assured me that if I only understood, I would realize I am leaving the only true church (45 years of faithful/blind dedication -- attending every meeting, serving completely, attending the temple, listening to every general conference, and then reading and re-reading every article, learning from and teaching in every auxiliary of the church, paying an honest tithing always, keeping the word of wisdom, reading the scriptures daily -- especially the beloved Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price, and the sprinklings from the Bible always knowing that it could only be trusted as it was translated correctly by those in authority...) No, I was not an uninformed Mormon who really didn't understand the "gospel" or live my religion as prescribed. I was a dedicated, indoctrinated member.
My husband accused me of not understanding, of being mentally ill, and of course, being unfaithful. To read anything that spoke unflatteringly of the LDS church was, to him, no different than indulging in pornography; to do so would be to put oneself in the position of becoming an apostate -- one of the unpardonable sins.
Leaving the LDS church has been the hardest thing I have ever done in my life, but I finally have been set free from false teachings and works which never brought me to the personal relationship that I now have with the Lord.
Some of my children had already become inactive in the LDS faith previous to my decision -- but they became totally atheistic. They no longer believe in God, because they realized that they had been taught from birth to believe in a false religion. They absolutely do not trust the Bible, and want nothing to do with the former control they were under (these are four of my boys -- all return missionaries, all adults, some over 40 years old).
Of my remaining children, some who are active in the LDS faith are non-judgmental of me, but I notice that they are the ones that are not totally blindsided by the teachings of Mormonism (they don't seem to expect everyone to believe as they do, and they are not completely controlled by the LDS teachings). Those of my children who are absolutely enmeshed in the faith, who regularly attend the temple and who worry about every single thing anyone else does, are extremely critical of me.
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I have a return-missionary daughter who will not allow me to see her children unattended. She told me to remove my cross necklace prior to coming to her home. She warned me that if any of her children ever saw me drink a cup of coffee in my own home, they would no longer be allowed to visit my home even attended. Ditto other of my children who are extremely active.
DeleteMy small community is almost exclusively LDS. I have one dear friend who has stayed close friends with me -- but she is obviously not in total agreement with many of the teachings of the LDS faith. She loves to come and enjoy a cup of coffee with me, and does not feel guilty to go to the temple afterwards. The strong, active, totally indoctrinated members of my former ward will often go to great lengths to avoid me if I am nearing them in the grocery store, etc. If they do talk with me, they always say they miss me at church. When I tell them that I miss them too, but that I attend another church now, they are always totally taken aback and uncomfortable, sometimes even hostile.
Friends who have been DEAR friends for many years are no longer friends. One of my dearest friends told me that she would only remain friends if I promise to never, ever discuss the reasons I left Mormonism. And we don't, but our friendship has nevertheless completely wilted.
My strongly indoctrinated children openly refer to me as an apostate. We never discuss anything religious, even Bible teachings. They do not want to hear ANYTHING that is not in line with their personal beliefs.
My youngest daughter was married in the temple 2 1/2 years ago to a young man who was raised in polygamy. He joined the official LDS church a year to the date that they were married in the temple. I was, of course, as an 'apostate', was not able to attend their wedding even though she was my youngest daughter. I love this dear son-in-law and my daughter, but I so worry about them. They try to attend the temple weekly, are very active in church, and their entire lives revolve around Mormonism (as mine did for so many years). They have not yet been blessed with any children. He has let it be known that she is never, ever to be critical in any way of his family's polygamist lifestyle. He says that he does not think it is necessary, but that there is nothing wrong with it. She worries about the implications for their future children, who are to accept that lifestyle as normal and wholesome. He continues to work for a company that frames LDS churches. His boss and most of the workers are polygamists (his boss has five wives). He has no desire to look for other employment, as this is his comfort zone. (I might add that there is no way that the LDS church, who employs this company, is unaware that the company is made entirely of polygamists. They are simply able to work for less than other companies, and have had steady LDS employment for many, many years.)
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Under great duress from my husband and children, I have not yet removed my name from the rolls of the LDS church. My husband had previously told me that if I removed my name from the church rolls he would divorce me. My husband and children believe that I am destroying our eternal family if I do so. I am told that all of my covenants -- baptism, temple covenants, etc., will be null and void once I make this move. I definitely will make it, especially once my drawn-out divorce is final. Truly, I do not believe I am on my way to godhood if I remain true and faithful to the LDS teachings and works-based ladder to the celestial kingdom. The only reason I have held off removing my name from the church rolls is because I want my family to adjust first. They are slowly realizing that I am NOT coming back to the LDS faith, and though they accuse me of apostasy from the only true church on the face of the earth, of turning my back on my family and all the covenants I have made before the Lord, I will not feel unattached to the LDS church until I have had my name removed. So, knowing that it will create an even larger division between me and my children, I have to take that step at some time.
DeleteI do not believe that my dear God cares whether or not I remove my name from the records of the LDS church, but I will never be free from them until I do. Though I have asked for NO CONTACT from the church, they continue to send home/visiting teachers, the Relief Society presidency once a year at my birthday, e-mail messages, etc. I know that once my name is removed, they will have to stop. I know they will no longer feel the need to check up and report on me to the ward bishop or keep records of my inactivity to send to church headquarters. However, I am very much aware that once my name is removed, even the pretense of caring about me as an individual will be gone. I will be an "official" apostate.
My neighbor, who began attending a different church, WAS excommunicated from the LDS church several years ago because she was unwilling to attend the local ward and profess to their beliefs. I note that, under legal duress, the LDS church is not as actively pursuing excommunication, even for moral sins that used to quickly cause excommunications. However, speaking against the LDS church is grounds for excommunication, so having my name removed from the church records keeps that from happening. I really should not care, but I have never done anything worthy of excommunication except to have come to the knowledge that Mormonism is based on a history of lies and deceit. I love my Mormon family members and neighbors, but I am sick at heart to see the damage done through following a religion that changes the nature and truth of the God of the Bible, teaches that the Bible is an unreliable source of truth (but that the Book of Mormon and other LDS scriptures are 100% reliable), and that in order to reach the celestial kingdom (and indeed become a goddess to my god husband and perpetuate our own world -- what blasphemy), I must believe and unquestionably obey everything I am taught by area and general authorities and follow blindly, serve unconditionally, and participate in secret masonic-based cultish ritualistic practices.
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I have been abandoned by family, friends, and community due to leaving the LDS faith. I know that my opportunity to obtain a job here is greatly diminished. My reputation has been obliterated within my once-welcoming community now that I have been labeled an apostate.
DeleteMy "sin": leaving Mormonism. Had I just left Mormonism and become "inactive," it would not have had the same effect, but I crossed a far deeper chasm when I professed to no longer believe in the religion and turned, instead, to Jesus Christ, and to the God of the Bible. If I truly want to be accepted in this community and even within my family, I would need to cease from wearing that wretched cross, and to quit participating in another church. My family is actually offended to see me studying my Bible. It just bugs them. I need to do that in private, because it is actually offensive to them.
Christians? Are Mormons really Christians? I think not. They now want to be called Christians, but even their former prophet, President Hinckley, admitted that the Christ of the Bible is not the Christ of Mormonism. And He is NOT. God is NOT a man who became the God of this world (as they will also become in time). The Bible is replete with knowledge that there is ONE God, only ONE. And Jesus Christ is my beloved Lord and Savior, the co-creator, with his Father, of heaven and earth and all that is. By Him (Jesus), and through Him, is the only way to God. Rules, rituals, and works have nothing to do with our salvation. It is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that we will ever be at home with Him. I can't express my love for the Lord God enough, or get enough of his Word, or seek to follow after Him for his glory (and not for my own) enough.
Are there persecutions, judgment, and unfathomable consequences inflicted on those who choose to leave Mormonism? Absolutely. And the judgment and persecution is escalated exponentially for those who choose to follow the teachings of Christ rather than the teachings of Joseph Smith.
An ex-Mormon Christian.
All, I am new at this post thing... but I should have added the fact that I as a Bishop, not that that should matter, was berated for several years and then finally excommunicated for asking questions, no moral violations at all... just asking questions in a private forum. My wife and I only went public with the issues after the Church took action against us after 32 years of service.
Delete